24fandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Main characters
I hate saying this, but "Main characters" don't exist. There is such a thing as a main cast, but characters? The fact that everyone is listed here by their actor first, not character first, is proof. And if you read the intro, the inclusion guidelines are strikingly arbitrary for something so clear-cut: "Additional major recurring characters who appeared in at least half of a season are also listed, as well as former main characters who returned in later seasons." We have to go by the credits or nothing at all. Editors can't be drawing arbitrary lines on this kind of thing. The identical problem exists with Guest characters. If that page includes "Special guest stars" and the rare "Special guest appearance by" actors in addition to "Guest stars", then it's even more arbitrary than this page. And I've always hated Recurring characters. That page is a farce. 16:47, 19 February 2009 (UTC) : So what exactly are you proposing? I think there should definitely be a page listing recurring characters and their number of appearances. Actor names have no place on such a list, however. And the credits should have nothing to do with anything. --Proudhug 16:52, 19 February 2009 (UTC) I am proposing an overhaul that includes no actors and no credit distinctions... just a number of episodes for each. (If we don't do that, then the only other thing we can do is move this to "Main cast", Guest characters moved to "Guest stars", and Recurring characters be consigned to oblivion.) I agree that the credits shouldn't be involved if we're listing it by character, which you agree with. But on this page they're not listed by character. They're listed by actor, and the article is drowning in useless credit differences between stuff like main cast and "recurring"... and we both agree that credits shouldn't be involved if it's by character. Also, how can a character be "main"? Unless we go only with characters who actors have been listed in the first credits section, that distinction is a massive blur and anything arbitrary we invent will instantly conflict with the Main stars category of actors. I could understand "major characters". And yet even there, major characters are "guest stars" for entire seasons but so was Blaye. 17:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC) : Yup. I agree completely. --Proudhug 17:17, 19 February 2009 (UTC) A few things: # I/we can now permanently remove all actors and credit references? # Should I/we move the page to "Major characters" (I don't mind much either way if its Main or Major) # Also, I'm beginning to think that since "Guest stars" can sometimes be more important than characters whose actors have been main cast stars, we should merge this page with the Guest characters? The excellent part about that, is then we can create an arbitrary but reasonable limit to exclude Blaye but include people like Dr. Spire. # Since it seems we're going to list appearances total, we will still exclude pre-recorded footage stuff like the appearances template, right? 18:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :: I prefer Major over Main, myself. Though, is that your intention, to only include major characters? I'd thought a page of all recurring characters would be more interesting. :: I don't know about including pre-recorded appearances. To me, that would seem to indicate actor appearances moreso than character appearances, no? Again, this would have to include news footage of Palmer in Day 5, right? --Proudhug 19:01, 19 February 2009 (UTC) All recurring characters is definitely more useful, you're right. So the inclusion criteria will be any character that has ever appeared more than once, correct? Now, since it's going to be recurring, can't we just delete or redirect this page and Guest characters to Recurring characters which already exists? We won't even need to bother with the distinction between main or major anymore. Also, on second thought is having the actors such a bad idea if they're in parentheses? (And we'll skip the pre-recorded stuff like on the templates too, for the reason you've described.) 19:43, 19 February 2009 (UTC) : Yeah, the delete/redirect sounds perfect. A possible issue with including actor names is that it's not always the same actor playing a character. To date, we don't have any examples of blatant Darrin Stephens actor replacement on 24, but there have been body doubles used for dead bodies or voice actors on the phone, for example. Obviously, it's not a problem to put two names in parenthesis if, say for example Prescott O'Brian appears in Season 8 played by a 12-year-old, but since this is a page for characters I don't think we need to list the actors. However, if you think it's useful or necessary, I'm not adamantly opposed to it. --Proudhug 20:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :: You're definitely right. We don't know who played Chappelle in that live phone-audio appearance, so it would be misleading to have just the one actor listed there. 21:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)